Addressing Bots and Multi Accounting Concerns

[linco247]

I think you’ve made some great points here and I feel we are really losing the aspect of a free market. A lot of the concerns @CannibalSheep brought up about the pump are dump are extremely valid and may promote speculation over-usage. In my opinion, the issue is not the fact it occurs but that the buying and selling bots are not accessible to everyone. A knife can be used to cook a delicious meal or to cut and kill. It seems more people are using knives to kill so maybe we all just need protective vests. If rly were able to help supporters with buying and sellin bots as they’ve done with launch bots then I don’t think anyone can complain. Although they will because it may be an arms race but no one holds your hand through life so I think that would be an acceptable method of support maintaing the freedoms of this market. I watched the PTM advert the other day and so some of the other creator coin apps which are using fiat currency and tbh if all youre looking for is to pay for creators to do something or give you access. THAT EXISTS IN A MULTITUDE OF WAYS ALREADY WITHOUT CRYPTO.

I believe MJF is an example of the future of rly where those looking to manipulate will be outnumbered by genuine interest so although they have their moments, in the bigger picture they will be irrelevant. His fans are purchasing his coin because it will MOON … HIS FANS ARE SPECULATING ???

Rly is so early in the process I think growing the community and fair competition is necessary. Monetary gains are the incentive in most human action in modern-day society. Pinching that early in the process will stunt rlys growth. I know for a fact if rly was promoted with different ways to make money on the market it would probably have a lot more supporters (probably more the wrong people than right). Recently I feel as if rly is being made so creators can make loads of money off supporters because really and truly I see a lot of concern about supporters making money but very little about the usage of coins. I joined the network originally from one of my friends who knew a creator coming on and after seeing him do well I decided to explore other coins. 70% of coins have boring or useless or literally DO NOT HAVE ANY. If these coins could be used more often then no one would be so confident to pump and dump with their bots. Look at furious pete, hes used speculation to his advantage by telling people he is due to announce to his fans and put some uses there and the bots can no longer affect him because he has made his coin VALUABLE. Look at the rlybook team, their coins value is increasing because their coins provide a useful service and are VALUABLE. Creators need to also be under scrutiny to improve. I know no one wants to say that because we are still trying to get big time creators. At the end of the day creators know what they are getting into by making a coin, can netflix complain if people unsubscribe and go to a new provider or just stop watching netflix. Is it unfair that the person who is still subscribed to netflix is not getting good quality shows anymore because funding is down since the audience has gone elsewhere.

It is a ridiculous notion that after you are already OBLIGED to stake your money in creators for given periods of time @CannibalSheep still feels that this is unfair for creators in my opinion. People dont join youtube and then message youtube to say people subscribe when i have high views and unsubscribe when I have low ones.

Some coins on rly are for pumping and dumbing and speculation. Some are for usage and creator interaction that’s the current state of the creator coin jungle that is rly . It is up to the creators to manage this.

Last thing @CannibalSheep , do you have a coin?

[CannibalSheep]

@linco247

I think you’ve made some great points here and I feel we are really losing the aspect of a free market.

Speaking for myself, you’re right. I’m still a crypto newb
I’ll take the time to understand the implications / details of a free market in the coming weeks.
Thanks for your feedback!

@linco247

If these coins could be used more often then no one would be so confident to pump and dump with their bots.

I agree. More valuable; more liquidity; less blatant manipulation.

Solution:

• Mid-term business plan?

However, as most of the CRC aren’t even on staff and are certainly overwhelmed at the moment… Idk.

@linco247

It is a ridiculous notion that after you are already OBLIGED to stake your money in creators for given periods of time @CannibalSheep still feels that this is unfair for creators in my opinion.

Not sure if I understand your point.
Are you referring to Flow Controls?

@linco247

Last thing @CannibalSheep , do you have a coin?

No, I don’t have a coin.

[Lomo]

Just my two cents you have to keep in mind that even the bots compete against each other so there is a certain risk. There will always be vulnerable in the system especially if we want a smooth user experience for new people. Same with bots on uniswap arbitrage trading or all the bots used on centralized exchanges. The point is that it becomes difficult over time if rally keeps growing because more people try to profit from this approaches. I m not saying that adding protection against this behavior is a bad idea but there needs to be a balance so that new people can easily use our platform. I believe a lot of the problems is solved by simple growing as a community because this creates a bigger risk for bots losing to other bots. Also a creator can just dump a portion of there coins if they realize that not hes fans are buying in the beginning because he doesn’t announced it yet.

[EricB]

One interesting aspect of this that I don’t think has been mentioned yet (I may have forgotten as I did not re-read this thread today, so please forgive me if this is a repeat… I do add some context about it.)

I heard about a Creator that pulled out alot/most(?) of the coin either on or near the day of their coin-release as to (as someone said->) something regarding control of the bot/speculation in general that we see with most releases. …that is a little absurd to me… I’ll explain quickly.

I’m not sure who the creator was, I also do not want to know who the creator was.
…that behavior is no different and no less greedy/entitled than bots or the term speculation.
AKA:
How can you yank a rug and then claim it was for any purpose other than your own entitlement/greed ?
No matter your aspect, you didn’t fight the issue, you did exactly what you claimed as wrong when done by others.
There is a term that I hope new Rally Creators have less and less of; entitlement. That is because effort is necessary to succeed.

• Getting involved in crypto and expecting to be the only winner ? Entitlement.
• Having a Creator Coin and using that as reason for performing actions you claim are wrong unless it’s you doing it ? Entitlement.

That term is so toxic.
I hope it is not their character trait and it’s simply a temporary head space caused by mild-gold-fever or similar concept.

---

On a secondary note: (and let’s not get derailed here…so think of this as something to ponder while away from this thread… if you would. Thank you.)
–REMEMBER<<< PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS SECTION AS IT MAY CAUSE A DERAIL. Contact me directly if you like.

• I’m curious why most creators are not helping Rally grow. Where is the actual effort ?
Do some feel they can take the grant money and not help the growth? – That’s more of that toxic behavior based in entitlement.
It shouldn’t need to be a requirement to help Rally grow… but sadly in 2021, maybe it needs to be a requirement. :sad face:

I’d love to be involved more with Rally.
Rally helps creators,…all creators should step up and help Rally grow faster. What is good for Rally is good for all Creators.

• So to close this out…
If you are a creator who does not fully understand aspects of Rally or how to use Rally to its’ fullest ability within your purview, then please find me on discord and we can have a phone call. user @EricB …search my name and send a message. I will respond.

I am very interested in seeing this platform utilized to its’ fullest as this is a flagship-game-changer opportunity for so many. These are very exciting times.

• Lastly, Some inspirational speak;
All creators should work as a smaller community within the larger entire Community.

// Example: How many creators have done cross promotion with one another / another-Creator ?
This systems awaits Creators to put in effort for their own success.

Genuinely; feel free to contact me for a chat/call.
// I do not work for Rally.

//Edit in: I corrected some typos.

[CannibalSheep]

@EricB

a Creator that pulled out alot/most(?) of the coin either on or near the day of their coin-

Wrong, he sold 1000$CCs (2% of the 50k creator genesis grant) an hour after his coin launch.

Community Grant Usage/Rules

Hello, During the launch of coins yesterday, there was some suspicious activity around the sale of a community grant which sparked some discussion in the discord channel. To summarize what happened: TAFO coin launched and when the coin was being sold down during speculation, TAFO sold 1000+ of his own coins shortly after launch. These coins were allotted as part of the community grant. Issues: -There are currently no guidelines that I am aware of on how the community grant is to be spent -…

@EricB

something regarding control of the bot/speculation in general that we see with most releases.

TLDR:
The core issue is the coin launch process… the community grant selloff, bots, etc. are just a symptom.
We should wait for Rally to announce the guidelines and details of the Fair Launch update.

[EricB]

@Cannibal : You should read and consume sentences at verbatim.

[lenini]

@mike

Over the past few weeks, several community members have raised concerns about bots and multi accounting. A delicate balance is needed to keep the platform free of suspicious or adversarial behavior, while honoring the nature of the platform: open for all to join. In order to get a clearer picture of our current state, we have kicked off a number of work streams around business intelligence, better data warehousing, analytics tools, and bot detection/monitoring. These tools will help us understand the current bot behavior. How widespread is it? What end points/behaviors are getting botted? What are the signatures of the current bots, etc.?

These questions will take some time to understand. Knowing that this issue is of immediate concern to the community, here is what we’re planning to implement to help prevent the problems that have been observed:

Bots:

• Implement a captcha system that triggers if a high frequency of transactions is detected
• Potentially implement a queued transaction system (each subsequent transaction has to wait until the prior transaction is completed). This would remove any pure “speed” advantage that a bot might have over a human.
• New coin launches: longterm, deploying a Fair Launch system that allows everyone to purchase at the same price for a set amount of time. In the interim, we’ve designed a “pseudo fair launch” system where the creator can designate transaction maximums, a cooldown timer between transactions, and how long these limits are set for.

Multi Accounting:

• To prevent multi-accounting, the goal is to move toward a graduated system where more substantial transactions are limited by KYC, while balancing increased security with the goal of maintaining a smooth transaction experience.
• A graduated system could begin without any KYC for transactions below a certain threshold, with a next step being to require a user to provide a mobile phone number at a certain threshold, and finally requiring KYC for certain transactions, including purchases over a certain amount, converting from Creator Coins to $RLY, or sending Creator Coins to another user.

Thanks to everyone who flagged the concerns and brainstormed possible next steps.

In order to build a platform that’s useful for creators, we always want to think about feedback from the creators themselves, and our community. If you have any ideas or suggestions, please make sure to voice them in here in the Forums. Thank you!

This is a very urgent problem and its solution will greatly simplify and secure the operation of any platform. This is a “sore” question and the time has come to solve it.

[ellawelch]

Can we get some more details as to how a queued transaction system would work and how that would be implemented. The description given seems to be really vague and could go in very different directions.

[CannibalSheep]

Classic pump&dump scheme.

[Markovic]

I don’t see your point @CannibalSheep in relevance of sharing these screens (pump&dump) - related to this topic (bots / multi-sig).

[cb123]

Check out the bot use on this CC. This person clearly is a moron and likely is who gets in at the lowest rate so found a way to zero their positions with minimal effort. EQUIS link: Rally : Creator Coins

Oh, and JAPAN also! Rally : Creator Coins
And STARS, Rally : Creator Coins

Pretty sure the cc know who they are though…

[MelonLord]

hi CannibalSheep, these charts are interesting. Where can I access these charts? Thank you in advance.

[mrq02]

Connect your Rally account at https://creatorco.in/, and once you log in click the Rally icon over on the left. You’ll find those graphs on the top right of the page. Although he uses some additional browser extension that gives sites a dark mode, as they normally have a white background.