Creator Coin volatility. If I were to quickly think of the top three contributors to volatility in a coin: bonding curve design, fluctuations in. $RLY price, and buying/selling activity of the CC.
We’ve addressed bonding curve design to limit the price impact of buying/selling activity. We cannot directly address $RLY price changes at the CC level (at least no ideas have been put forward yet). However buying/selling activity has been proven to be driven largely by the CAR Rewards system.
If you invite uncapped participation AND uncapped rewards at the CC level, then you should expect large buys and sells that have a disruptive effect on what are small economies. If we allow uncapped participation, but cap the rewards at something reasonable as I suggest - perhaps 1k coins - then you ensure a smaller exodus when the rewards eligibility ends, and smaller RLY rewards on the front end. You also ensure less volatility in the underlying economy, so less disruption of true fans participation with a Creator.
To sum it up, rewards system is disrupting economies by creating strong incentives for large participants to cycle through CCs in pursuit of rewards. Create a reasonable maximum rewards per CC for each participant outside of the Creator in order to limit the volatility.
Personally, I don’t think volatility is a bad thing. You’re going to have it with small cap stuff and the community at large needs the speculation to grow. I think we have to be careful what we wish for with any changes. They may seem like they’re what we want in the short term, but I would venture to say we would actually be more frustrated with the long term declines in growth should we limit speculation too much. A few small changes such as rewards for holding coins longer is fine, but the added benefit of having people invest in creators they don’t know far outweighs the downside in the long run. Although, after doing some digging Rally DOES have it setup where people who sell off a CC have to pay a fee to both the creator and Rally, so the more they do that, the more they have to pay. As long as a creator isn’t selling off their stake and their true fans aren’t selling off their coins, they’ll both benefit in the long run. I feel those small changes I’ve listed previously should suffice for now without compromising the growth potential at large for the platform, creators and investors as a whole.
I think the Creators feel differently about the volatility (and have spoken up in forums and discord to this effect) and the feeling of being “held hostage” by the presence of large speculators in their economies. I think the platform loses far less than the Creators gain by putting in some reasonable caps on rewards for a coin.
These generous caps wouldn’t preclude speculators from participating, it would just place some limits. I think it would be very healthy for the coins and the data will prove it out whenever we can get a look at it.
@jose_delphi@kevindelphi
I hope your team is doing well and enjoying the work on TBCs and rewards! Would any of the Delphi digital team working on behalf of the Rally community be able to weigh in on this discussion? We could really use your expertise and your access to the platform data to bring us closer to actionable improvements. If you have some things in the works, even a rough timeline of when we could expect some suggestions to come out of your research could help the community determine if we should take action in the interim or get to work here. Thanks!
@Grand yes, we’ll be chiming in with some thoughts on this topic soon. We’re working with the Rally team on a phase II proposal and are trying to get that ironed out this week. Will have more on this in the coming days but we’re starting to dig into some of the key issues / questions that’ve been raised in this post. Hope this helps!
I think we do have to account for the silent majority on these issues as well though. From my own personal experience marketing for over 15,000 music artists so far, what often happens is that when someone is happy with a service, they simply keep using it. Fortunately or unfortunately, the only feedback you get on the administrative side is that people keep using your platform. The bias we would see with this issue is that those who are most passionate on the opposing side are quite often overwhelmingly the ones speaking up. This is just human nature. For example, billions of people use companies like Facebook, Amazon, and Google. And the vast majority of them simply continue using the service with little to no feedback for the administration. However, if I went to look at reviews on Trustpilot or another site for these same companies, you would see the majority of people leaving bad reviews. This would not be an accurate reflection of how the community at large feels. I am only cautioning against making drastic changes without accounting for the silent majority. I’ve already listed previously some small changes I believe would be helpful.
as nathniel mentioned ‘needs the speculation to grow.’ I think having an open market with price discovery is needed or people can’t understand how a thing is valued.
Perhaps an orderbook system so people can express value for real. There are exchange systems to do that today.
Very good points, ultimately the rewards are for those that “create”. If a creator is doing that then he or she should get some incentives and the community will benefit from that type of behavior.
When American Express was giving out rewards for the first time, I know of a friend who arbitraged the system and walked away with a crazy amount of points from finding gaps with the system. It was fixed and now the loophole is closed. Maybe we can learn from the credit cards rewards plans? After all they are a tested model?
I believe the plan I had laid out allows for real measurement for success. Which is what we want!!! It allows for a creator to hit 10 targets and reap more rewards if they have a solid business plans. It allows for a level playing field and the majority of the measurements can be handled by an algorithm and taking any extra effort from the team on a weekly basis.
This achieves everything the reward system was supposed to do from where I sit.
If we limited rewards to only the first 1k coins wouldn’t that have two potentially negative consequences?
Create an incentive for speculators to simply make more accounts to maximize the placement of 1k coins into a creator economy to maximize the return while simultaneously evading many of the flow controls and penalizing “fans” that won’t go to the trouble of setting up multiple accounts as they are there to support the creator instead of farming rewards.
Artificially penalize some of the creators biggest supporters that are most likely to be large coin holders.
Got it. I agree your objectives are clear. I was more referring to a variety of other comments that seemed to have slightly different objectives and wanted to see how much overlap or divergence there is. Your plan is well thought out. My chief recommendation would be to simplify it and start with fewer categories and then measure the impact. Then we could see about adding some others in the future or tweaking them. 10 seems like a lot of categories. Maybe you could also simplify the mechanics about growth targets.
I’d also set a scorecard with target metrics so we could measure whether the change is achieving the target goal. Overall, I’m supportive of this type of initiative.
Good questions, and I appreciate your thoughts here. I do think any consequences of changes should be weighed also, against what we are currently seeing ann what I’ve characterized as negative in light of the creator coin volatility I’ve highlighted, with the most recent example we could see with Jayus - exodus of 500k RLY.
It is worth noting that the new curve has clearly proven very attractive for farming rewards, while presenting a lower impact on the price of the CC when speculators cycle to the next CAR reward opportunity.
To the first point around incentivizing multiple accounts to undermine the system, I would say that Rally should already be in a position to see if folks are using multiple accounts to farm or otherwise game the system to then send their coins/RLY and exit via a single KYC’d account. I think it would be even easier to detect at scale, but I could be wrong on both accounts.
Are we penalizing super fans is harder to say, and how harsh is that penalty weighed against the price volatility and loss in the underlying value of their coin holdings?
The data should be pretty clear on how many fans are holding, and not selling 1k coins across creators. [side note here that we’d want some multiple of 1k coins for the alternate bonding curve; my 1k example would be for the sigmoidal curve]. Additionally, we’ve seen coin prices tumble by double digit %s that rewards simply can’t compensate for. If you were to reduce that volatility that is driven by the exodus when rewards dry up, then I believe you’ve ensured that the fans preserve more of the value that they’ve committed.
Ultimately, we are still stuck in the position of not having the data to inform this discussion. However, Delphi has committed to some updates next week that should put us in a better position to continue this discussion. Look forward to discussing this further when we aren’t forced into guesswork here!
As a quick thought experiment, what would things look like if the weekly reward distribution was just based on total RLY backing a coin and not a cyclical measure of recent growth?
creator
price
avg balance last 4 weeks
current rly backing
weekly reward
last weeks reward
what if rewards were just pro rata on backing?
reward per backing rly old
reward per backing rly new
reward per market cap old
reward per market cap new
calledhigher
$0.63
306,400
618,653
56382
61507
26790.78408
0.09113671153
0.04330502572
0.29
0.14
wrekonizeontwitch
$1.05
53,932
69,625
12086
20720
3015.112416
0.1735870736
0.04330502572
0.21
0.05
kaansanity
$1.13
55,285
71,857
13015
10046
3111.769233
0.1811236205
0.04330502572
0.21
0.05
xcelencia
$1.74
59,018
103,142
21230
22929
4466.566963
0.2058327355
0.04330502572
0.21
0.04
xell
$1.01
54,914
67,952
10923
12887
2942.663108
0.1607458206
0.04330502572
0.20
0.05
ubershouts
$1.38
60,860
85,590
15918
5846
3706.477152
0.1859796705
0.04330502572
0.19
0.04
ethanpierse
$1.04
54,575
65,228
10408
15061
2824.700218
0.1595633777
0.04330502572
0.18
0.05
joebart
$1.02
57,760
69,421
10378
1302
3006.278191
0.1494936691
0.04330502572
0.18
0.05
dankhoo
$1.19
58,477
72,033
11770
4222
3119.390918
0.1633973318
0.04330502572
0.17
0.04
morrolantv
$0.98
58,503
68,953
9733
12979
2986.011439
0.1411541195
0.04330502572
0.17
0.05
rootcatz
$1.16
59,726
72,716
11448
17719
3148.968251
0.1574344023
0.04330502572
0.17
0.05
persian
$2.30
85,258
186,608
32063
39426
8081.06424
0.171820072
0.04330502572
0.16
0.04
optimysticra
$0.99
57,372
64,620
8291
2079
2798.370762
0.1283039307
0.04330502572
0.15
0.05
steveolsher
$1.09
62,022
71,360
9712
7759
3090.246636
0.1360986547
0.04330502572
0.14
0.05
renee
$1.71
71,576
101,911
17511
34407
4413.258477
0.1718263975
0.04330502572
0.14
0.04
casuallyexplained
$0.44
453,382
547,026
28436
61393
23688.975
0.05198290392
0.04330502572
0.14
0.12
h1t1_official
$1.01
63,335
71,281
8909
16410
3086.825539
0.1249842174
0.04330502572
0.14
0.05
stevenvbe
$1.18
63,329
73,032
9927
773
3162.652639
0.1359267171
0.04330502572
0.13
0.04
anrblock
$0.82
593,879
988,374
63552
92929
42801.5615
0.06429954653
0.04330502572
0.13
0.09
meleestats
$1.02
55,084
60,310
7092
16673
2611.726101
0.1175924391
0.04330502572
0.13
0.05
thisjustin
$0.43
339,949
378,551
18012
57147
16393.16079
0.04758143553
0.04330502572
0.12
0.11
cheese
$1.13
61,809
68,548
8313
14193
2968.472903
0.1212726848
0.04330502572
0.12
0.04
minhsmind
$1.18
64,711
71,700
8471
17304
3104.970344
0.1181450488
0.04330502572
0.11
0.04
awesomejoey
$1.04
58,959
63,660
6750
0
2756.797938
0.1060320452
0.04330502572
0.11
0.05
maxfrost
$1.08
60,222
64,934
6943
1892
2811.96854
0.1069239536
0.04330502572
0.11
0.04
ggdoa
$1.14
66,427
72,983
7982
0
3160.530692
0.109367935
0.04330502572
0.11
0.04
bigjon
$0.98
57,508
61,068
5647
6852
2644.551311
0.09247068841
0.04330502572
0.10
0.05
sonder
$1.05
68,033
74,509
7169
0
3226.614162
0.09621656444
0.04330502572
0.10
0.04
hinssen
$1.18
64,338
70,452
7241
0
3050.925672
0.1027791972
0.04330502572
0.10
0.04
jasonsteinhauer
$1.09
62,336
66,618
6398
22756
2884.894204
0.09604010928
0.04330502572
0.09
0.04
cpa2kleague
$1.06
58,085
61,308
5638
14206
2654.944517
0.09196189731
0.04330502572
0.09
0.04
newagetna
$2.21
103,652
145,717
20666
29105
6310.278433
0.1418228484
0.04330502572
0.09
0.03
fab5freddy
$1.03
58,673
61,196
5018
3824
2650.094354
0.08199882345
0.04330502572
0.08
0.04
danschawbel
$2.01
99,629
125,728
16358
18642
5444.654274
0.1301062611
0.04330502572
0.08
0.03
condor
$1.01
57,339
59,504
4637
17590
2576.822251
0.07792753428
0.04330502572
0.08
0.04
slick
$1.07
63,687
67,717
5239
11122
2932.486427
0.07736609714
0.04330502572
0.08
0.04
ohmygodstephen
$2.77
109,173
159,599
22743
24678
6911.438801
0.1425008929
0.04330502572
0.08
0.02
naomiandmar
$2.57
113,005
155,818
20962
30947
6747.702498
0.1345287451
0.04330502572
0.07
0.02
nitenightkid
$2.94
112,935
164,704
22936
0
7132.510957
0.1392558772
0.04330502572
0.07
0.02
gregarious
$1.10
65,228
68,466
4951
0
2964.921891
0.07231326498
0.04330502572
0.07
0.04
jaybaer
$1.16
67,184
69,958
5337
8675
3029.53299
0.07628863032
0.04330502572
0.07
0.04
drewskievr
$1.06
58,440
60,161
4109
5872
2605.273653
0.0683000615
0.04330502572
0.07
0.04
mayorreynolds
$1.08
61,816
63,652
4342
7565
2756.451497
0.06821466725
0.04330502572
0.07
0.04
dinglecrypto
$2.44
111,308
142,118
17708
23319
6154.423646
0.1246006839
0.04330502572
0.07
0.02
goodcoin
$1.75
96,495
108,284
10968
0
4689.241406
0.1012892025
0.04330502572
0.06
0.03
insight1
$2.28
114,372
142,197
16883
25041
6157.844743
0.1187296497
0.04330502572
0.06
0.02
painuser
$1.28
76,171
79,747
6037
26813
3453.445886
0.07570190728
0.04330502572
0.06
0.04
clothia
$1.01
58,549
59,820
3471
15634
2590.506639
0.05802407222
0.04330502572
0.06
0.04
tophertownmusic
$1.08
63,120
64,351
3531
11594
2786.72171
0.05487094218
0.04330502572
0.05
0.04
bkramer
$1.37
81,832
84,507
5240
1551
3659.577809
0.06200669767
0.04330502572
0.05
0.03
soulofjacobeh
$1.32
70,805
73,505
4347
1801
3183.135916
0.05913883409
0.04330502572
0.05
0.03
xtinaholder
$3.53
146,261
200,442
23559
19711
8680.145966
0.1175352471
0.04330502572
0.05
0.02
shipbroman
$9.55
118,076
377,223
51320
21474
16335.65172
0.1360468476
0.04330502572
0.05
0.01
kaellyn
$1.93
116,832
132,251
9891
0
5727.132957
0.07478960462
0.04330502572
0.04
0.03
elevategg
$1.03
59,006
59,303
2650
13526
2568.117941
0.04468576632
0.04330502572
0.04
0.04
avagg
$1.49
89,491
92,542
5569
12515
4007.533691
0.0601780813
0.04330502572
0.04
0.03
amy4monte
$2.50
132,773
151,055
13670
20798
6541.440661
0.0904968389
0.04330502572
0.04
0.02
clubcoin
$1.01
63,896
63,385
2528
403
2744.889056
0.03988325314
0.04330502572
0.04
0.04
seershamusic
$4.38
169,333
227,270
24304
39655
9841.933196
0.1069388833
0.04330502572
0.03
0.01
johnkoetsier
$4.14
169,887
220,553
22780
31444
9551.053339
0.1032858315
0.04330502572
0.03
0.01
thebackpackshow
$2.82
152,316
168,724
12897
12522
7306.59716
0.07643844385
0.04330502572
0.03
0.02
tejas
$1.11
68,740
67,594
2100
0
2927.159909
0.03106784626
0.04330502572
0.03
0.04
japandyjones
$1.25
72,371
69,460
2400
5104
3007.967087
0.03455226029
0.04330502572
0.03
0.03
djjohnaskew
$1.69
92,252
92,136
3840
10619
3989.95185
0.04167752019
0.04330502572
0.02
0.03
jaffejuice
$3.54
172,746
194,487
14929
21487
8422.264538
0.07676091461
0.04330502572
0.02
0.01
annhandley
$2.78
152,773
163,156
10325
17176
7065.474777
0.06328299296
0.04330502572
0.02
0.02
auggievelarde
$1.27
76,910
77,442
2337
4016
3353.627802
0.0301774231
0.04330502572
0.02
0.03
mjf
$1.65
128,505
119,810
4570
22375
5188.375132
0.03814372757
0.04330502572
0.02
0.02
lefevrediary
$0.98
58,497
57,785
1158
10476
2502.380911
0.02003980272
0.04330502572
0.02
0.04
evankirstel
$3.29
173,591
185,536
10969
19424
8034.641253
0.05912060193
0.04330502572
0.02
0.01
mang0
$3.90
189,616
209,361
14182
30052
9066.383491
0.06773945482
0.04330502572
0.02
0.01
scottmonty
$1.59
101,893
102,329
2899
16855
4431.359977
0.02833018988
0.04330502572
0.02
0.03
isocialfanz
$4.90
223,672
250,608
16611
34953
10852.58589
0.06628280023
0.04330502572
0.02
0.01
ckurdziel
$1.39
85,267
85,577
1784
2511
3705.914186
0.02084672283
0.04330502572
0.02
0.03
emerymusic
$4.51
219,010
241,926
14559
47455
10476.61165
0.06017955904
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
cryptosrus
$1.10
65,581
64,939
1047
740
2812.185066
0.01612282296
0.04330502572
0.01
0.04
maddie
$1.56
95,587
95,559
2047
8751
4138.184953
0.02142132086
0.04330502572
0.01
0.03
platformprotv
$3.86
236,874
251,865
12172
20927
10907.0203
0.04832747702
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
drazeforce
$1.97
118,743
118,959
3114
21138
5151.522555
0.02617708622
0.04330502572
0.01
0.02
jauzofficial
$2.17
121,079
122,233
3364
6572
5293.303209
0.02752120949
0.04330502572
0.01
0.02
powerplay
$1.48
91,425
91,643
1498
10871
3968.602472
0.01634603843
0.04330502572
0.01
0.03
digitaldoctor
$0.96
60,769
56,756
605
9108
2457.82004
0.01065966594
0.04330502572
0.01
0.04
selah
$3.49
189,321
191,937
5744
0
8311.836722
0.02992648629
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
wobbleweezy
$3.72
163,713
166,833
5264
26084
7224.707357
0.03155251059
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
iambomanix
$2.59
158,819
149,855
3273
33880
6489.47463
0.02184111308
0.04330502572
0.01
0.02
6amgroup
$1.79
128,421
118,462
1828
18414
5129.999957
0.01543110871
0.04330502572
0.01
0.02
nicholena
$10.01
347,590
405,280
24235
41700
17550.66083
0.05979816423
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
roffle
$8.05
395,250
443,086
21356
52553
19187.85063
0.04819831816
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
itsdivineog
$1.11
69,220
68,318
463
234
2958.512747
0.006777130478
0.04330502572
0.01
0.04
theplaycoin
$13.41
386,799
472,383
29610
36775
20456.55797
0.06268218797
0.04330502572
0.01
0.00
meta4ickal
$6.21
281,091
290,082
9509
19630
12562.00847
0.03278038624
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
stanz
$3.50
195,447
197,083
3506
15821
8534.684385
0.01778945926
0.04330502572
0.01
0.01
mrblock
$0.99
58,584
57,182
293
9539
2476.267981
0.005123990067
0.04330502572
0.01
0.04
foushy
$1.06
71,932
69,617
366
0
3014.765976
0.00525733657
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
dberkowitz
$8.88
354,539
376,890
15036
21588
16321.23115
0.03989492956
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
petershankman
$8.04
338,545
354,121
12407
26791
15335.21901
0.035036047
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
jowyang
$9.89
384,784
404,464
14185
22972
17515.32392
0.03507110645
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
waxmotif
$5.70
280,233
282,788
4886
733
12246.14161
0.01727796088
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
ableblack
$15.32
509,938
531,268
14791
12565
23006.57441
0.02784093904
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
joepulizzi
$15.96
524,331
547,041
15040
0
23689.62458
0.02749336887
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
jeffpulver
$14.22
541,306
554,812
11675
20953
24026.14793
0.02104316417
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
lukiluki
$18.53
566,018
590,081
15686
33599
25553.47288
0.02658279118
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
emocoin
$0.41
340,272
276,386
199
28318
11968.90284
0.0007200075257
0.04330502572
0.00
0.09
alliestrasza
$26.72
690,271
752,832
25338
36442
32601.40913
0.0336569115
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
keeyuh
$1.64
101,804
101,808
223
362
4408.798059
0.002190397611
0.04330502572
0.00
0.03
livibee
$16.12
553,549
562,341
9016
29534
24352.19147
0.01603297643
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
armano
$0.97
58,687
56,170
57
12832
2432.443295
0.001014776571
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
mizzy
$1.76
108,835
108,827
99
1192
4712.756035
0.0009097007177
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
art
$8.05
377,161
365,849
1063
0
15843.10036
0.002905570331
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
kevinchou
$29.09
800,293
801,573
6977
4950
34712.13938
0.008704135494
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
chewiemelodies
$1.78
111,292
110,420
0
0
4781.74094
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
jvckj
$3.04
189,910
176,648
0
0
7649.746184
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
twlevewinshs
$1.67
105,743
103,376
0
0
4476.700339
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.03
downtoquest
$9.01
599,741
364,625
0
39693
15790.095
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
fanhots
$4.66
246,334
241,703
0
0
10466.95463
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
jane
$3.30
186,420
185,553
0
0
8035.377438
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
tina
$1.78
122,214
109,915
0
0
4759.871902
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
arvius
$1.60
99,950
99,684
0
155
4316.818184
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.03
carmen
$2.12
130,058
129,050
0
0
5588.51357
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
viviana
$1.99
134,442
120,348
0
0
5211.673236
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
ksk_honda
$32.47
846,837
846,460
0
6326
36655.97207
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
blametruthoc
$1.52
94,334
94,293
0
1026
4083.360791
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.03
gengesports
$11.90
622,051
446,104
0
0
19318.5452
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
susie
$1.12
67,545
67,434
0
1921
2920.231105
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
portugaltheman
$26.94
797,214
758,484
0
0
32846.16913
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
vanishesports
$1.50
108,749
93,740
0
0
4059.413111
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
vibelol
$1.64
118,130
102,246
0
0
4427.76566
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
theclassicmatt
$7.10
399,526
316,779
0
0
13718.12274
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
mitchjoel
$1.02
67,324
60,658
0
0
2626.79625
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
ark
$1.03
64,987
60,085
0
19424
2601.982471
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
garylhenderson
$12.14
472,602
452,196
0
0
19582.35941
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.00
voicebot
$4.51
282,546
232,348
0
8215
10061.83612
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
hardaway
$1.04
64,514
62,459
0
379
2704.788602
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
hugs86
$1.15
75,946
69,346
0
0
3003.030314
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.03
tastelesstv
$1.52
120,594
96,848
0
0
4194.005131
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
illmind
$1.97
160,445
130,577
0
0
5654.640344
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
crisisofmanofc
$1.38
107,009
95,816
0
10125
4149.314345
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.03
s2jjj
$1.00
70,813
59,161
0
14327
2561.968627
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
dekkster
$1.80
132,728
113,576
0
0
4918.411602
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
jackneel
$1.27
85,810
77,999
0
4913
3377.748701
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.03
willchobra
$0.97
63,816
56,112
0
0
2429.931603
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
justmaiko
$2.22
144,348
139,911
0
0
6058.849454
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
xidingart
$0.95
60,744
54,959
0
9846
2380.000909
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
imrobvoice
$3.29
243,569
185,398
0
13722
8028.665159
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.01
carole_baskin
$1.35
138,986
101,896
0
0
4412.608901
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
wuki
$1.55
150,572
95,829
0
0
4149.87731
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
furiouspete
$1.28
129,691
82,681
0
0
3580.502832
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
flashpoint
$1.56
113,475
97,922
0
66
4240.514729
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
tafokints
$0.94
61,473
56,232
0
0
2435.128207
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
chrismessina
$1.11
70,230
64,911
0
0
2810.972525
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
chillindude
$0.94
62,524
53,360
0
0
2310.756173
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
startupbros
$2.00
182,482
138,113
0
24982
5980.987018
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
onlyjayus
$0.57
873,957
567,729
0
43456
24585.51895
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.05
brianclark
$1.22
124,515
80,843
0
17059
3500.908195
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.02
yucef
$0.94
57,972
52,093
0
0
2255.888705
0
0.04330502572
0.00
0.04
I don’t think the above “solves” any of the noted issues but I do think it highlights the extreme recency bias of the current system relative to a naive alternative. I think there are a lot of opportunities to improve the current rewards system but I’d start with a relatively simple question, “is the comparison to a time bound trailing average doing what we want it to?”
i believe at conception the thinking was that “growth” should be the primary driver of rewards and that the system should allow for new entrants to compete on even footing with established players. i think both of those general thoughts still true but i don’t think the current design accomplishes that intent.
i think this is less a data analysis need than a re-examination of what we want to incentivize. so maybe a slight reframe… there are 3 questions:
what should the total reward emission be?
which behaviors at the coin owner level should be rewarded?
which behaviors at the user level should be rewarded?
to date #1 has been based on total creators live, #2 has been growth in RLY backing over baseline, and #3 has been owning coins consistent with #2.
#1 is the only one that seems to benefit from data analysis. #2 and #3 are subjective determinations based on what we believe is best for the network and will probably be better to change over time than set programmatically in perpetuity. what if we just reset the discussion with crisp articulations of preferences for #2 and #3 that can inform a design follow up?
On point, as usual! Thank you for joining the discussion and helping us refocus here with a re-examination of what we want to incentivize. Here is my thinking and preferences below for #2 and #3.
I think the fundamental issue is that “growth” has remained the exclusive driver of rewards, despite even at the inception of CAR the realization that we do want to (and must) incentivize other behaviors to build healthy creator economies. As we discussed last November: Proposal - Community Activity Rewards , or as Kevin put it there “usage by token Creators and their communities is ultimately what will drive long term success of the network.”
I trust your analysis and consideration of circulating supply and mainnet liquidity and liquidity mining incentives to make suggestions here.
Sustainable growth as measured by RLY backing, user/fan growth, campaign redemptions, donations received, measurable usage of passive benefits (ex: gated discord channel user count, twitch channel subscriptions, innovative use cases.
Engagement with creator as measured by long term holding, campaign redemptions, donations, CC holdings measured by RLY backing.
Perhaps, but I also believe that some data analysis could also help us re-evaluate the allocation of those rewards emission between Growth and other behaviors we want to incentivize across #2/3, such as usage. For instance, what insights can we draw from campaign redemptions and donations at the Creator level. Setting aside for the moment passive holding benefit usage that is difficult to quantify. How many fans in the user base are engaging with these features and to what extent?
Then maybe look at something like where do the top creators as measured by donations/campaign redemptions stack up in the total CAR rewards. Are we seeing any trends in the economies that leverage these features that might not be present in economies that exclusively feature passive benefits? I do think answering these questions can help us with the tuning of rewards emissions between the incentives that we identify.
That’s what I think! I also would add that this problem is so challenging as is, that the community might benefit from a virtual working session to explore these questions (and the many responses above) in real time to compliment all the weighing in here with forum posts…if you or the team or Delphi or some combination would be up for hosting one.