Hi Folks,
I wanted to talk a bit about how the Community Activity rewards are currently structured. I’ve included a screenshot here from $SKOT coin. Shoutout to his skills as community dev!
Note that the large “buy” has been updated to read “rewards”, but I’m a bit rushed here to take another screenshot.
What I wanted to highlight in this screenshot is that the community rewards drops appear to be incentivizing users and RLY holders to chase community rewards with low-risk, high yields that eclipse the yields provided by the LPs.
I could be be very wrong here if there is some new utility that $SKOT has introduced which is where these purchases have come from, but I think one can observe similar (and quite rational) behavior in other coins offering high yields each week. Also possible that there is no gaming of the system happening here and I’m missing some critical element! However, I’ll be very surprised if there isn’t a meaningful amount of coins converted out to RLY late Saturday afternoon to capture the rewards + gains from other users jumping in behind after those same rewards.
@smalldogg@KevinChou both discussed possible next steps, and the ability to easily monitor the current reward structure for gaming of the system. What can we do next to improve the system if we feel this is suboptimal? Does it start with modifying the way rewards are accumulated? Disbursed? Or by introducing some modifier or additional rewards…
Perhaps the rewards could accumulate weekly, but be distributed daily over the following week? Would love to hear more about what we’ve learned (data perspective) from the first weeks of rewards rolled out. Total Rewards distribution by creator might be interesting, and looking at that $ amount relative to donations or any other proxy we may have beyond CC purchases for fan engagement.
Are there other ways we can modify the community rewards like with a cap on the rewards based off some multiplier of donated/staked/holding for duration of coins that would more accurately reflect the types of transactions I might equate more closely with “activity.”
A few thoughts, and hope to hear more on CAR part deux based on the discussions and planning you’ve had internally. Welcome further thoughts from the community as well!
Yes, the gaming of the system by short term flows is very much top of mind. For Rally to grow into a truly valuable network, we need Creators and communities alongside long term crypto enthusiasts to make real earnings. And in the next 90 days, Mahesh laid out on the call today a great overview of thoughts on how to help Creators drive real earnings for their digital business that depends on CAR and moving transactions from high fee platforms to their own social token.
@DaddyFatSax has been discussing how other projects have variable times to claim network rewards such that very short term gaming of the system is dramatically reduced, and I know he’s working on an overall v2 of the entire network that he’s going to propose to the community I believe next week. It will include how all network systems interact, from compliance limits placed on us by PTI on bridge and redemptions, to Creator Flow controls, to CAR, to Rally.IO controls and how he’s observed mainnet flows. The overall goal will be to make sure Creators can use Rally to increase their income, grow a long term asset, and a healthy Rally network economy takes root.
Thanks for kicking off, and I’ll be working with DFS and other devs to take this feedback into our overall proposal for the community
I agree that the current system is too ripe for exploitation… Especially with the new $RLY bridge letting funds leave the network, it’s too easy for someone to farm the reward yield and then immediately remove those funds from the network.
A few thoughts/ideas:
Currently, Rewards are based on # of RLY backing the CC, which is based off of the # of CC minted on a moving average, which is based on the # of CC’s being purchased… In short, more purchases = more rewards. Having only this 1 factor determining rewards makes it incredibly easy for just 1 individual to exploit the system.
What about rewards being based on a # of factors, not just TVL… such as: the # of unique users transacting with the coin that week, # of new users brought to rally, etc.
Dripping the rewards into the community - Example: Instead of $1000 rewards being added at once, maybe $10 of rewards could be randomly dripped to the community every few blocks. This would eliminate the issue of there being a specified timeframe for the exploitation to occur.
Limiting the # of rewards that can be generated by 1 purchaser, or having mechanisms in place to limit the # of rewards that can be earned based on # of number of factors like # of unique users using the coin that week, total donations.
Having a higher reward multiplyer for donations to a creator compared to purchases. (this would incentivize the community donating vs speculating) (There could even be a widget showing the community how much more they need to donate to achieve the maxmium reward multiplyer or something to encourage donations)
RE: Skot. He’s integrating $SKOT coin into his Able Black game. He recently pushed out a new update, which is teasing something special coming up, and the app is leading people to his discord. While this may or may not explain the surge in purchases, I sincerely hope that the purchases in question were well intentioned.
I’m happy to hear that DFS is looking into ways to make the rewards program more robust and to further integrate it into the rest of the rally network.
I’ve found a few other platforms doing similar reward/grant/match based programs…
When thinking about the current rewards system, I’d argue it’s quite difficult for a normal user (fan of creator for instance) to understand how the reward system works, outside of “more money makes it go up”…
How can we possibly make the rewards system easier to understand at a basic level? I’ve seen other platforms do things such as “% Match” or “Reward Multiplier 1-5x”. I’m not sure how something like this could be done without changing the system as a whole, but that’s what V2 is for, right?
Really enjoyed hearing Mahesh talking about the next 90 days and it certainly addressed much of what I brought up. Very excited to see what @DaddyFatSax has in the works!
That’s a good insight into how difficult it can be to grasp for these audiences.
I think some visuals here would be very helpful, particularly for Creator onboarding. I really liked how @mike Li or perhaps it was @amit illustrated the Creator Coin Token Bonding Curve early on in the blog posts and explained it in such an easy to understand way. I could see using that same illustration as a base to clearly demonstrate the Community activity rewards at work in their current form on the CC TBC, and how various aspects (which I’m excited to hear about) coming with v2 will also play in.
Happy to sketch out what I envision here if helpful.
I’m a noob and learning about Rally’s Rewards system, it was said “… Rewards are calculated per community based on the difference between the total number of underlying $RLY backing their owned Creator Coins… If a community has more underlying $RLY in the current hour than their previous 4 week hourly average…”
But it was never mentioned HOW “the community can have more underlying $RLY” in the first place. Seems like a recursive issue.
‘More underlying $RLY’ is defined as the Creator Coin’s current $RLY backing (as shown on their Creator page) being more than the ‘avg. balance last 4 weeks’ shown on the Community Activity Rewards tab on each Creator’s page.
When anyone buys, or converts $RLY into, a Creator Coin, the total amount of $RLY backing that coin goes up. Think of each Creator Coin as a pool of $RLY tokens. If that pool is larger in each hour than its average over the previous 4 weeks then it is awarded a slice of the Community Activity Rewards.
